This post was originally published on this site.
We recently published a working paper on the impact of a public works program in Djibouti on women’s work and a range of other household outcomes. We were gearing up to write a blog about this work – discussing what angle we would take for the blog, etc… Then we got some inspiration from Peter Hull’s post on X about his NotebookLM-generated podcast of his recent publication. We shifted gears and in a time span not much longer than it took to type this, we generated a podcast about our paper with NotebookLM. Below is the transcript of this gem. Â
And for those of you with about 6 minutes to spare, the audio file is here.
We do not necessarily agree with all of the content and would have emphasized other aspects of the paper. Still, while quite shallow, this podcast is generally on the mark.
Enjoy!
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Speaker 1
Ready for a deep dive? Today we’re looking at a fascinating study about, well, women and work sounds interesting. It is. We’re headed over to East Africa, to Djibouti. And this study, it paints a really interesting picture of what happens when you try to get more women into the workforce in a place where, frankly, it’s just not that common.
Speaker 2
Right. And not because they don’t want to work, but because the opportunities just aren’t really there.
Speaker 1
Exactly. So this study looks at like a public works program in Djibouti specifically for women with young children. And we are talking really young kids.
Speaker 2
And that’s key here, right, because that’s a major factor influencing whether women in Djibouti work outside the home. It’s a very traditional society in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1
For sure. So you’d think a program like this, you know, it involves things like garbage collections, St. repair, small craft projects. You wouldn’t think it would be that popular, right?
Speaker 2
Yeah. You think it’d be a hard sell, especially given the whole childcare situation.
Speaker 1
Right. But here’s where it gets really interesting. The researchers found that a whopping 96% of eligible households signed up.
Speaker 2
96%, seriously?
Yeah, I mean, talk about a demand for these kinds of opportunities.
Speaker 2
That’s wild, so it really makes you question some assumptions about, I don’t know, maybe some of the reasons we see lower female labor force participation rates in some places.
Speaker 1
OK, so we’ve got massive sign up rates, but did they actually do the work themselves or did they like, I don’t know, pass it off to other family members?
Speaker 2
That’s the thing: 77% of the women who signed up actually did the work.
Speaker 1
Wow. That’s a powerful statement. It seems like they were really gung ho about this.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And again, these are women with very young kids in a culture where traditionally they’d be expected to stay home. This really challenges those norms.
Speaker 1
I’m curious though, how did they make it work– 4 hours of work a day, plus childcare. Plus you know everything else. That’s a lot. So how do they manage 4 hours of work a day, childcare, the usual household stuff. That’s a lot to juggle.
Speaker 2
Well, it seems like they got creative. The study found that the women relied a lot on their communities, like, you know, forming support networks, helping each other out with childcare or chores, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1
Makes sense. Teamwork makes the dream work, right?
Speaker 2
Exactly. They even found ways to, like, adjust their sleep schedules and stuff to make it all work. Talk about dedication.
Speaker 1
Wow, so this program sounds like it was a huge success then. Did it lead to a lot of these women finding other jobs after it ended?
Speaker 2
Well, that’s where things get a little tricky. See, this program, it was designed to be, like, a temporary thing. Yeah, just to provide some income support for a bit. And when it ended, yeah, most of the women went back to not having, you know, formal paid work.
Speaker 1
Uh, that’s kind of a bummer. So it was like a temporary fix.
Speaker 2
In a way, yeah. But I hesitate to call it just temporary, you know, I mean, the jobs themselves ended. But the experience that might have stuck with them. The women got a taste of financial independence, contributed to their families. And maybe, just maybe, gained a bit more confidence in what they can accomplish. Who knows?
Speaker 1
Felt like they got a glimpse of what could be, right? Did the study it did it actually look into any kind of lasting impact on the women.
Speaker 2
Well, they didn’t track long term outcomes specifically, but they did find something super interesting. The women who seemed to benefit most from the program, they were the ones who weren’t working at all before.
Speaker 1
Which makes sense. I mean they had the furthest to go in terms of like finances and, you know, experience and all that.
Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. But here’s the thing. These women, they also tended to be in communities with shall we say more flexible ideas about women’s roles. So it wasn’t just about the money for them, it was about pushing those boundaries a little, you know?
Speaker 1
Oh, wow. So it kind of turned into a social experiment in a way: challenging those norms, getting people talking.
Speaker 2
Exactly. And even though the program ended, I mean, can you imagine the experience of earning your own money, supporting your family, that has to have some kind of impact on your outlook, right?
Speaker 1
It really makes you wonder about the ripple effects, you know. Like did this experience change people’s attitudes about women and work? Even a little. Did it spark some conversations. It really makes you wonder about those ripple effects. You know, like, did this experience change people’s attitudes about women and work even a little? Did it spark some conversations?
Speaker 2
Right. Like, we can’t say for sure. The study didn’t really go there, but I mean, it makes you think, right? Did this experience, even though it’s temporary, did it kind of, I don’t know, plant a seed, maybe shift some perspectives, even just a bit.
Speaker 1
Yeah, totally. OK. So on a more practical note, did the study look at the costs, like how expensive was it to run this program?
Speaker 2
So they didn’t like do a deep dive into the budget or anything, but it does make you wonder about, you know, the cost effectiveness compared to something like direct cash transfers.
Speaker 1
Oh, interesting point. Like, what’s the trade-off there? You’ve got the community benefit of these public works projects, but they’re temporary, right versus just giving people money directly.
Speaker 2
Exactly. And I think this study really highlights how like complex these development initiatives can be, there’s the economics of it, the social dynamics, the cultural context. It’s rarely a simple equation.
Speaker 1
Yeah, so true. So if we’re trying to sum all this up, what’s the like the big take away here for our listeners.
Speaker 2
I think the biggest take away, at least for me, is that even in a place like Djibouti, where, let’s be honest, women having formal jobs is pretty rare, the desire to work to earn an income, to contribute, it’s there. And when they were given a real opportunity, even a temporary one, these women, they didn’t just like meet the challenge, they crushed it. They figured it out, supported each other. It’s really quite inspiring.
Speaker 1
It’s a good reminder that we shouldn’t underestimate people, right? And no matter where they live, what their situation is. Sometimes all it takes is a chance, an open door and you never know what someone’s capable of.
Speaker 2
100% and it makes you think, right? What about other places where women’s participation in the workforce is limited? What if we took more chances, created more opportunities that actually worked for people you know? Imagine the possibilities.
Speaker 1
Now there’s something to ponder. Well, thanks for guiding us through this deep dive today. It’s been really eye opening.
Speaker 2
Anytime, always a pleasure to geek out over a good research paper. You know how it is.
Speaker 1
And to everyone listening, thanks for joining us on this deep dive. Stay curious out there and we’ll catch you next time for a brand new deep dive.